Nothing else out there like these unless you cast em` yourself! Even if you do cast the cost & quality of these is too hard to beat. I've worked up loads with several powders at various lengths for a 1911 10mm. Pushed them to 1200 with little to no leading in my barrel (Fusion Firearms UMG) No Gel test, but these things are absolutely devastating to gallon jugs. Great weight retention for lead and .75-.80' expansion on the ones I've recovered. Really accurate, just a pretty big shift in point of impact. Looking for something fun and different for 10mm? At a decent price, give these a try. Thanks GT for the awesome products & Great Service.